Speaker 0 00:00:05 Hello, and welcome to integrity through compliance AMI business success series. My name is Brenda Morris and I'm a managing director, corporate compliance and business oversight. This podcast was created by season's compliance experts at affiliated monitors to speak practically to your business needs. During the series you will hear from Amies experts in corporate compliance, healthcare government contracts, antitrust manufacturing, education, and more who provide their observations on industry trends, gear to raise your awareness and to protect your brand. So grab a cup of coffee and join us as we guide you and your business to integrity through compliance. Hello, and welcome to another episode of integrity through compliance, AMS business success series podcast. I'm Brenda Morris, managing director at AMI. I already know that today is going to be a great day because I'm here with two of my favorite people. Our guest today is Joseph West partner and the chief diversity and inclusion officer of the law firm. Duane Morris also with me today is my friend, my colleague, and also cohost Dion, Lomax Deon. Would you please tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do at AMI?
Speaker 1 00:01:30 Sure. Hello everyone. I'm delighted to be here with Brenda, my, my, my partner in crime, so to speak, I am the managing director of antitrust and trade regulation at affiliated monitors, meaning that I have oversight and in charge of client matters that involve competition issues across a host of industry. So I am delighted to be here. Very interested in hearing what our guest speaker has to say today. Thank you.
Speaker 0 00:02:03 Thank you. And our guest for the hour is Joseph West. He is partner and the chief diversity and inclusion officer at the law firm of Duane Morris. So for the few of you out there that may not be familiar with Joe, you need to know first and foremost that he is a successful litigator who has represented fortune 100 corporations globally. And if that weren't enough, Joe is an accomplished nationally recognized subject matter expert on diversity and inclusion. So welcome my friend. How are you doing today, Joe?
Speaker 2 00:02:43 Brenda, I'm doing great. It's always a pleasure to connect with you again, those in the audience who don't know Brenda and I have been friends for a long time. I have such deep respect and admiration for you and Dionne. You're such an accomplished person yourself. It's just an absolute privilege and honor to be with both of them.
Speaker 0 00:03:04 What did you make you a guest on every podcast and you go everyone. Well, we do want to know Joe, please tell us when and how you started on your professional diversity and inclusion journey.
Speaker 2 00:03:18 So that's an excellent question because as you pointed out, I'm glad you mentioned my background as a trial lawyer. I'm from new Orleans. As you know, I went in-house with Entergy corporation and about 99 energies unique. It does all of its litigation in-house. So I handle a large number of litigation matters, commercial litigation, some contract dispute issues, some regulatory matters, catastrophic injury tort cases. I ended up being recruited into Walmart's legal department and, uh, at the beginning of 2007 and my time there was almost evenly split between class-action complex litigation group. And at one point I was named the head of the outside counsel management group. I was responsible for managing Wal-Mart's relationships with all of its outside law firms globally. It was during that time at Walmart, when I headed the outside counsel management group, that I first gained an appreciation and understanding of the value, particularly the business case for diversity and the general counsel recruited me to Walmart was a guy named Tom Mars.
Speaker 2 00:04:27 Tom was one of those ahead of the curve, general counsels who saw the value of diversity and inclusion. And he pushed the group that I had led to increase both the number of women and minority relationship partners in large firms, as well as the number of women and minority owned law firms that did work for Walmart. And in the space of about two years, we shifted about $60 million worth of business to women and minority owned firms, women, and minority relationship partners. And I tell you an interesting thing happened. The quality of the work went through the roof, the level of responsiveness and engagement from our outside counsel went through the roof, the scores whereby Walmart's internal business clients evaluated the work of the legal department, went through the roof and looked Brendan. I love that story because it illustrates the Connexity between diversity and inclusion and excellence.
Speaker 2 00:05:28 That's right. People still cling to the notion that those two things are mutually exclusive and they're not they're interdependent. As a matter of fact, you really cannot have one without the other. And that was the thing that made it apparent to me that diversity and inclusion was something that was important. And during that same time period, Walmart established deep relationships with a large number of affinity bar organizations like the minority corporate association, the national bar association is Spanish national bar association, national Asian Pacific American bar association, national association of women lawyers about 20 or 30 different organizations. And by connecting with those organizations, attending their conferences. As a matter of fact, I was recruited to Walmart through NCCA. You know, when I was really, I didn't know that. Yeah. Which is ironic because years later I was the CEO of the organization, but yeah, and, you know, I ended up when I was in new Orleans on, you know, you know, this Brenda, but I lost my home to hurricane Katrina ended up being like, wow, working in Houston at one of Entergy's satellite offices introduced, joined MTCA as a member organization.
Speaker 2 00:06:41 And I met Tom Maurice at an NCCA dinner, uh, and just having a conversation with him, he realized that I had a ton of litigation experience and he said, I'm going to recruit you to Bentonville. And that's what he did. And so I, I am living proof of the value of the connections that diversity organizations can bring. And so after five years at Walmart, I establish a very close relationship with Tom Sayer, who was the general counsel at DuPont, another pioneering general counsel around diversity and inclusion. He created the DuPont minority counsel network. For example, Tom was one of the founders of NCCA. He reached out to me and he'd let me know that my predecessor at MTCA had left and that there was a Korn ferry was conducting a national search. And he said, look, I really think you should, uh, let him, this is what Tom said. He said, I'm not going to ask you to toss your hat in the ring. I'm going to ask you to let me to your head. Okay. And so that's also the kind of baby you can't say no to. And the rest is history. That's how I became the CEO at MTCA.
Speaker 0 00:08:03 Well, when you went to Duane Morris, when was that? And what year and how did you become the diversity and inclusion officer there? I just don't recall. Before you knowing of any other diversity and inclusion officers at a law firm.
Speaker 2 00:08:21 Yeah. So I came to Duane Morris five years ago now, January of 2016, but it's interesting. I signed a three-year commitment to NCCA. My first day there was actually September 11th of 2011. Wow. I joined and right the anniversary of nine 11 in 2011, and I signed a three year commitment to the organization. Uh, when my three years was almost up Don Lou, who was the, uh, one of the co-chairs of the board, Don was the general counsel
Speaker 3 00:08:56 At Xerox at the time, he's now the GC at target. And we became very good friends. Don came to me about two months before my three years was up. And he says, you know, you can't leave. Right?
Speaker 2 00:09:10 I've got a lot of different opportunities. And he said, no, no, no, no, no. We need you to stay at least another year. And a little bit.
Speaker 3 00:09:18 We're very fortunate. We had launched a number of training initiatives. We started the Academy for leadership and inclusion, which was the first of its kind implicit bias training program. We tripled our membership base, but that law firm and corporate members organization was in good shape. And I said, Don, I've done my part. And he said, no, no, no. We need you to stay at least another year. And I said, okay,
Speaker 2 00:09:41 But I'm going to be looking because otherwise I'll be committing Joe malpractice look. And he said, okay, fine. And so during that time period, right,
Speaker 3 00:09:53 I had a number of other opportunities and I will be honest with you. Joining a law firm was probably the last thing that I wanted to do. But, uh, I spent during that time period, a lot of time communicating with people at Duane Morris. I knew the firm well for one of my outside counsel, when I was at Walmart, it continued supporting NCCA. When I became the CEO and a number of the people at the firm, I just knew, well, Matt Taylor, who's now the chairman. He was the head of the trial practice group. He had been recruited me for years. John's Roco, who was a chairman of the firm at the time had been trying to recruit me. And I had conversations with them designed to scare them away.
Speaker 2 00:10:44 Well, and everything I said that I would want and need, they said, okay, you know, and, but
Speaker 3 00:10:52 Why should bring that about chief diversity officers? It is a relatively new phenomenon. The chief diversity inclusion officers at law firms and the most common model is for someone who's not a practicing attorney or who doesn't have a significant role in leadership. And I, I cast no aspersions at any of my friends and colleagues who are in those situations or firms in those situations. I just think the better model is the one that we have. And that is a partner at the firm, somebody who has an active book of business, who is actively practicing law, who heads up the diversity and inclusion work. And that was the way Morris's mom. And my predecessor was a guy named Nolan Atkinson, who was one of the first chief diversity and inclusion officers in country. And he ended up retiring from the firm and became the first chief diversity and inclusion officer for the city of Philadelphia.
Speaker 3 00:11:48 The reason I think that model works better is because let's face it partners in large firms are responsive to people who they consider to be peers and who they think have a certain amount of gravitas within the firm. It makes it a little bit more difficult to get people's attention, to get the resources committed to the issues that are important to the firm and to get them to understand that our external stakeholders, namely our clients care about this stuff too. If you don't have clients, it's kind of hard to say to your partners, this is something that our clients care
Speaker 1 00:12:30 And, you know, Joe, that's, that's interesting because you know, when you talk about diversity and inclusion, particularly at a law firm, usually you're talking about that business case. And you're trying to convince from leadership of the business case for diversity and inclusion efforts. Yeah. That sounds like exactly what you're saying.
Speaker 3 00:12:50 Yeah. You hit the nail on the hand. And the fact is we all know, think and believe that a meaningful approach to diversity and inclusion is the right thing to do, but the fact is not everybody sees it that way. Every organism on the planet is motivated by self-interest okay. If you get people to understand that treating diversity and inclusion, lack a core component of the business of the organization, then they understand what's in it for me. And you know, there's a couple of things. If you're in a law firm, the fact is a growing number of clients care about these issues. We saw that trend starting. I remember reading, uh, actually this was an article Tom sames sent me, I think in 2012, there were three fortune 500 companies that I was chief diversity and inclusion officer. Now three fourths of the fortune 500 have a chief diversity inclusion officer.
Speaker 3 00:13:50 And oftentimes it's, it's a part of the C-suite, you know, this, these are people who are responsive to and responsible to and connect with the CEO with boards of directors. I mean, there are committees now on, on boards of directors, Brenda's, you know, focused on diversity and inclusion, um, because they understand two things. One diversity and inclusion mean this diversity is about the workforce. Inclusion is about the workplace. That's right. The entirety of your organization depends on the health wellbeing of the workforce and the workplace. So diversity inclusion is really at the core of everything that you do. The other thing is, look, we, we live in an era now where a moment can metastasize it to a movement. And if your organization doesn't have, uh, a, if you haven't been properly inoculated with some fluency around issues of diversity and inclusion, when something happens, you're going to be caught flat footed. We saw that in 2020 with a lot of organizations. And the other thing is you have to have enough policy nimbleness to adjust when something happens. And again, we saw that in 2020, you know, I remember when, uh, a lot of law firms and corporations were under pressure to give people the day off of June teeth. And people were like,
Speaker 0 00:15:23 What is Juneteenth? Somebody, somebody emailed me and said, is this someone who is a non Brown or black person said, is the company inviting us to a barbecue? I was like, uh, I don't believe so.
Speaker 1 00:15:45 Oh my God. Well, you know, Joe, okay. So I have to ask, because you said, if the organization's not prepared and they're not nimble, something happens, they're going to be found flat-footed. And so that leads into this area of diversity and inclusion crisis management, right? What are the do's and don'ts for an organization when a misplaced email that someone wrote goes viral, or what have you, I mean, can you give us your thoughts on that?
Speaker 3 00:16:13 Oh yes. So there are two, I give you two anecdotes out. One company I'll mention, because this was kind of public, the other high. Well, after George Ford was killed, so many people and organizations ended up getting religion and decided they wanted to put statements out there and that sort of stuff, there was this one entity, which may or may not have ended up being a client of mine. I won't say out of the way, but the CEO of the company decided he wanted to just throw a statement out there without really thinking it through or vetting it and worse. He posted it on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 00:16:52 Oh, now,
Speaker 3 00:16:55 And can I just tell you, people blew him up. There were several executives who were people of color who had left the company who had a horrible experience as well. They were there and their response was, well, that's nice Bob, but was there this happened? And that happened and this, wow. Then it just became this snowballed. Yeah. It's no ball. So to your question, yeah. The fact is if you don't have an authentic and genuine and meaningful approach to diversity and inclusion, you can't fake it and you can't create it out of whole cloth after something happens. That's the first thing, the second thing is don't just put your stuff all out there that for people to, you know, pick up on it and engage in this ongoing conversation. And at the core, really of that issue was, you know, people really not just listening.
Speaker 3 00:18:04 I think people in leadership who pride themselves on listening well to their external stakeholders, like their clients, doing a Bismal job of engaging with their internal stakeholders, like their employees. And the fact of the matter is because there is such immediacy about the, in a grievance process, the lowest ranked person in your organization can blow things up. Absolutely. And you have to be mindful of that. You have to realize that and be ready and willing to engage in a way that you otherwise would not have. I remember I was, uh, I was listening to a presentation that, uh, Brad Smith, who was the, uh, junk council and president at Microsoft was giving Brad was, he was talking about the fact that he gave a presentation to the summer interns and they, they had like a list of grievances. Yeah. And, and he was like, you know, you guys are leaving in August, right? He's like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 0 00:19:21 Everybody wants to be heard. And because of social media, people have a platform. And exactly to what you're saying is then, you know, one little thing can blow up. It can just go viral and your integrity and brand are in the tubes
Speaker 3 00:19:40 Right now. Let me give you an example of the right way to do it. Uh, you might've seen on the news that Roz brewer became the CEO and had Walgreens. I did. I know Roz. Well, we worked together at Walmart. Fantastic. Huge, right. I mean, that's huge news. Ross has extraordinary before, after between Walmart and Walgreens, she was at Starbucks. Ross was at Starbucks when the incident happened in Philadelphia, right. When those two black, one black, two black guys, I think one of them, they got arrested. They got arrested for sitting in a Starbucks, waiting for a business meeting to start. That's what happens at Starbucks. I mean, it's like America's hangout or using free, free wifi. Right. Exactly. You know, but these two brothers they've somehow hit her. They arrested them Starbucks shut down all their stores to do diversity and inclusion training across their platform. Yeah. Who does that? Okay.
Speaker 0 00:20:51 Someone who means it, a company that's committed.
Speaker 3 00:20:54 Exactly. That's exactly right. And so that's an example of, you know, doing it the right way.
Speaker 0 00:21:01 And one of the things I want to just make sure everybody understands because diversity and inclusion, you hear it a lot. Um, and what exactly does it mean? And I, and a friend of mine who is a diversity and inclusion specialist, there's a common, you know, breakdown that she uses. And I just want to make sure we put it out there. Um, and she, she said she got it from her dad, but I've heard it in other ways too similarly. But diversity is like being asked to a dance inclusion is being asked to dance. I mean, there's a difference.
Speaker 3 00:21:36 There is a difference. And, uh, I first heard, uh, my friend Vernae Myers say that for an exit fantastic diversity inclusion expert. She's the chief diversity officer at Netflix now, but that's exactly right. And I mean, look, if you went to a financial advisor and somebody who was going to manage your portfolio, and they said, don't diversify your assets, you would fire that person immediately because that doesn't make any sense. There is strength in diversity on our currency is the phrase E pluribus Unum, which means of mini one in that signifies to you. The fact that our diversity is in fact, our strength. It is, there are tons of studies that show this, you know, McKinsey has done studies that show this Forbes has done studies capitalists as that sort of that diverse groups perform better. They have a better return on investment. They are more creative.
Speaker 3 00:22:36 And so the business case for diversity has been made, manifest across a lot of different platforms. There is no organization out there that wouldn't say that they have ethics as a core value. A lot of organizations claim that diversity is a core value, but you wouldn't have an ethics guy just come in once a year, give an ethics question and then leave. And then you go about doing business in the usual unethical fashion, right? Yes. If ethics is a core value that you live by it every day, every single thing you do, every conversation you have, every decision you make is guided by ethical principles. The same thing applies to diversity and inclusion. If it's a core value, then it's part of your DNA in the organization. And everything you do is guided by it. And it is a part of all of your decision-making and all of your actions as well.
Speaker 0 00:23:31 When you talk to your corporate clients and leadership and the boards, what practical advice do you give them about sustaining that diversity and inclusion dedication. That
Speaker 2 00:23:46 Is the key word there, Brenda, especially last year. Cause you know, everybody got religion. Floyd was murdered all over the world. People who had never even considered issues of diversity inclusion were already sort of like steeped in it. But then after that sugar rush, you know, sort of burns off the question becomes what now, you know, I'm very curious to see what kind of sustainability there is. And here's how I would answer that question. Every organization is at different points in this journey. Some of them have fairly robust diversity and inclusion programs, but even within that ecosystem, there are some issues that are problematic. For example, I have one client that has strong diversity and inclusion program, but as you go up the food chain, the air kind of thins out for people of color in leadership ranks. Okay. So it hasn't really manifested itself in the advancement and the mentoring and the sponsorship necessarily lead people to the next level.
Speaker 2 00:24:49 And then a lot of other organizations have nascent to non-existent programs. I literally had a company hire me and the CEO said, so what's all this diversity stuff I keep hearing about. Wow. I'm just like, yeah, I know some of them charge you, you know? So they're at different points. So I, I always advise to start take inventory, just look at where you were. A good organizational survey is usually a good place to start. Um, make sure you establish a working group that's designed to sort of do, um, uh, a deep dive into what, where are you in the journey? What have you done? What have you not done? What's worked, what's not worked. What are other organizations doing? What ideas can you steal? What trade groups, associations, affinity, organizations out there can give you some guidance and help and assistance. The other thing that's really important, Brenda, and then I'll stop is accountability. You have to make sure because you know the same, what gets measured gets done. That's right. You have to make sure that any sort of metrics that you come up with are tethered to people in positions of authority and responsibility who will be held accountable for the progress. If you don't have that, there will be no sustainability.
Speaker 0 00:26:18 Now, when you say that though, Joe, are you talking about actually tying performance to tying their involvement, the leadership's involvement to the dedication promotion of DNI. If that is what you're talking about, what does that look like?
Speaker 2 00:26:35 I'll give you a perfect example. The answer's yes. I mentioned Brad Smith earlier Smith at Microsoft. He a program
Speaker 3 00:26:44 Where he would do two things. It was a perfect carrot stick kind of setting. He would establish diversity and inclusion goals and metrics for his direct reports. And if they did not meet them, he would withhold a portion of their annual bonus. He hit him in the pocket. It clarifies the mind when you tie into money,
Speaker 0 00:27:11 Everybody understands money. Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 00:27:14 It's universal. Okay. I remember I had dinner with Brad once and I was asking him about that. I said, Brad, how many years have you been doing this? He said about five years. I said, well, how many years have any of your direct reports miss their annual bonus? And he said just the first year, because people's attention. Right? Well now the other side of it is what he also created a program where he would communicate with his outside firms, what the expectations are of them around diversity and inclusion, not just with respect to the teams, working on Microsoft work, but also from firm-wide what their numbers look like. He would look at the, you know, the MCCs annual survey, the now survey and that sort of stuff and say, this is where your numbers are. This is where you need to be. If they met the goals that Microsoft set, they get a sweetener, they would get like a 3% bonus on top of what they building collected.
Speaker 3 00:28:16 So they're incentivized to actually do better with respect to diversity. A lot of companies have done that. Larry too, who was the general counsel at CBS before CBS, Larry was at Dell and he served on him on MCC board. When I was there. What Larry used to do when he was at Dell is that every year he would look at the diversity of numbers of all of their outside firms and the ones that had the best numbers. He would invite them to come to Dell and pitch for additional work in other areas. I mean, if, sort of convince people of the business case for diversity, nothing will. So, so yes, Brenda, in answer to your question, you're only limited by your creativity,
Speaker 0 00:29:04 Right? And your commitment because the bottom line is if you're committed, you will be
Speaker 3 00:29:11 That's right. That's exactly right. And all of the examples that I gave you are illustrative of ways in which you can tie the business case to some financial performance and reward people for meeting those goals. Just like anything else, you know, you're in sales that you go over your sales quota, you get a bonus. You, you know it, you know, if you're bringing in business or if you're trying cases or closing deals, whatever it is, and you hit the Mark, you get rewarded. If you don't, then, you know,
Speaker 0 00:29:47 Well, like you said, tying it to metrics, what gets measured gets counted and it has to be on that level or else it isn't going to count period. That's exactly right now, I think we've hit on a lot. Um, and we're coming to the end of our session today and we definitely want to have you back. Cause there's a whole bunch about Joe West career that we could delve into and just, uh, you know, do another whole podcast on every little facet of your career, but
Speaker 3 00:30:19 Okay. Well, one of my moms is in libraries, Brendan, and he asked me to do something the answer's yes, but about me,
Speaker 0 00:30:29 You, I'm going to tell you, you know, you're one of my favorite people and we can sit here and gush on this all day long, but it is true because what you see is what you get. And that's another thing I think that makes you really good and qualified for this position is authenticity. And that's one of the things I wanted to talk to you about and to end with, you know, if someone is asked to lead up a diversity initiative in their company, and we're not, everybody's a fortune 100 company, fortune 500 company, you know, not everybody has a big budget. What three things would you be able to give or suggest they focus on to be successful?
Speaker 3 00:31:10 The people, the processes and the purpose. So let me, let me take those in reverse order. The sad truth is host George Floyd. A lot of organizations were just interested in window dressing. They would just, you know, slap a statement out there, not even on their website. Just maybe send a statement out there without much thought, not much strategy behind it. Something just to sort of keep critics at Bay. But if you're not purpose driven about what you're trying to do, if you're not willing to do the work, to understand the value of diversity and inclusion, then you're really just wasting your time. And so the whole question becomes, what's the tone at the top. What's the level of commitment from the leadership and not just in resources, but also an engagement in, in doing the work to learning, to understanding the study. You know, that's the first thing, the other thing is procedures, policies and procedures.
Speaker 3 00:32:14 You know, a lot of the implicit bias work that I do is designed to help people understand how bias, which really as studies have shown is the most intractable problem that has made it difficult for women and people of color, particularly people of color, and especially African-Americans, uh, to gain a foothold in a lot of corporate ecosystems. The fact is bias can manifest itself in a lot of different sort of choke points in the career trajectory in the career lifespan, whether it's in the recruiting process, whether it's in the compensation decisions and disparities that exist. There are the assignment of work who gets those plum assignments, who gets the stretch assignments, evaluation of work, the mentoring and sponsorship and support that gets people to the next level. You know, even when how, and under what circumstances people are disciplined or separated from the organization, you know, and each of those sort of choke points, you have issues around bias.
Speaker 3 00:33:21 And there really does have to be a commitment to look at the policies and practices and procedures and determine whether or not there's bias, having an impact in either of those places. And the first thing I mentioned again, I'm going back and reverse order the people at the end of the day. Uh, and I think this is something we discovered in this virtual world of ours. It really is about the people in your organization. The connections that we have, the relationships that we establish, the ability to just simply understand each other. We held three town halls at our firm after the George Floyd incident, one for partners, one for associates and one for the staff. I led the discussion along with Matt Taylor, our chairman, there were two hours each and we allow people to just communicate whatever they wanted. I mean, you guys remember, I mean, the feelings were raw.
Speaker 3 00:34:20 Absolutely just raw in, there were people who share stories of experiences that they had had, whether it's over the course of their lives or since they've been at the firm. And I had a lot of our white colleagues calling me and emailing me in tears saying I had no idea. I mean, I see parents every day and you know, I mean he told a story, Terrence Evans, I know he wouldn't mind me telling this because he shared it a few times and told a story that every black man I know, you know, with the police and he was on his way to a trial. And one of, one of his white colleagues remembered the incident. I remember that day in terms of when in court and it would have known he had experienced something that traumatic just hours
Speaker 4 00:35:18 Before. And I said, welcome to my world.
Speaker 3 00:35:21 You know, you, you have
Speaker 4 00:35:22 To gain an understanding of the fact that people are dealing with stuff.
Speaker 3 00:35:25 You can add them. Right. We live in such different worlds in there really has to be the commitment, having an understanding about what it's like to walk in somebody else's that's
Speaker 0 00:35:38 Right. That's right. Cause everybody has a story, but people of color oftentimes have a very different experience in what should be similar services.
Speaker 3 00:35:49 Yeah, that's right. That's exactly right. And we have to understand that. So we're not scrambling around to try to figure out what gene is. Well,
Speaker 0 00:35:59 I think it should be a barbecue. That should be part
Speaker 3 00:36:02 Of it. I
Speaker 0 00:36:04 Do enjoy a good Juneteenth. Barbecue. Maybe we'll have another episode. We just talk about Juneteenth so everyone will know what that is or barbecues, what we barbecue at lawn Juneteenth. Well, Joe, thank you so much, Dion. I know is excited, was so excited to meet you. And so now this is a lasting relationship. You've got another friend, Joe.
Speaker 3 00:36:29 Yeah. I love it.
Speaker 0 00:36:31 Well, we want to thank you so much. And on the behalf of affiliated monitors, this has really been a great, great time to discuss this with you folks know that on our podcast page, you'll find Joe's bio and his information and how to reach out to him. And if you have any questions, please reach out to us and we will be happy to get you in touch with Joe or answer any questions that you may have for AMI. So thank you. And we'll see you next time. Thank you for joining affiliated monitors podcast, integrity through compliance, analyze business success series today's segment is just a sample of the subject matter expertise captured by AMS compliance professionals. Go to our
[email protected] to view the comprehensive list of industry and in-house talent. AMI has available to enhance professional and business integrity programs and controls. Also connect with us on LinkedIn to receive updates and trends in the areas of enforcement and compliance. If you have any questions about today's podcast or would like to learn more, please contact
[email protected]. Our affiliated monitors podcast, production team of Dolores. SIADH our compliance associate Dan Barton, our editor and podcast music composer, and me Brenda Morris, managing director for her compliance and business oversight. Look forward to you joining us again for our next installment of integrity, through compliance, AMI business success series.
